Re: [rant] Entertainment Rants

by Guest Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:53 am

Never seen it, never want to. Also not a big fan of Mel Gibson's habit of appropriating other people's histories to make a point about how much he hates certain groups of people. Given his rampant anti-Semitism, yanno.

by Conreezy Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:52 am

HermitTheToad wrote:What's the collective opinion about movies that have white actors in place of characters that are traditionally ethnic? I'm thinking of movies like Noah and the unreleased Exodus: Gods and Kings.

I've never understood some of the blatant whitewashing in casting, especially when someone is playing a specific historical figure or if a culture is important to the story (I'm looking at you, Jake Gyllenhall as the Prince of Persia), but I have to wonder just how far the idea of staying true to something has to go. Does an American version of a Japanese movie have to be full of Asian actors? Should actors who are playing soldiers actually be veterans? Shouldn't we cast real ninjas instead of pop stars?

by Guest Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:32 am

I think whitewashing in certain instances wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't so damn-near universal. And if it happened the other way more.

by Mel Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:15 am

embertine wrote:I think whitewashing in certain instances wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't so damn-near universal. And if it happened the other way more.

And if people didn't pitch such an enormous fit when it happens the other way. (Or even when they simply didn't read the source material properly: Witness the freak-outs over Rue being black in the Hunger Games movie... just like she is clearly described as being in the book. innocent

)

by Wondering Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:17 pm

Count me with not liking it when white people are playing traditionally ethnic characters. Take Johnny Depp as Tonto. NOPE. Especially egregious since the original Tonto back in the 1950s was played by a Native American.

The one place I was willing to overlook it was Cloud Atlas because they were reusing all the actors in all the storylines, regardless of race. But I know there were people bothered by the white actors playing Asians in that movie.

Separate entertainment rant: The Mindy Project this week. Way to totally ignore and dismiss, if not outright mock, the idea of consent. I was quite disturbed watching the episode.

by **eselle28** Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:22 pm

Wondering wrote:
The one place I was willing to overlook it was Cloud Atlas because they were reusing all the actors in all the storylines, regardless of race. But I know there were people bothered by the white actors playing Asians in that movie.

I'm one of those people! In addition to erasure of Asian characters, using the same actors was just so goddamn obvious. But that's another one of those works that I'm not sure was meant to be a movie.

by **Werel** Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:07 pm

Ugh, can we talk whitewashing a second re: Firefly? Why am I the only person I know who's super grossed out by everyone code-switching in Mandarin "for flavor" and all the planets being covered in Chinese signs and everybody playing Chinese goddamn checkers in their downtime... AND YET not once is there a person of Asian descent in the whole show*? Even among the extras? I first watched Firefly a year or two ago, and by the time I was five or six episodes in, I was freeze-framing crowd shots to try and find a single Asian person. Nada. The erasure of real people in order to turn all of East Asian culture into a prop for a white cowboy hero is chillingly thorough. Good job Joss!

*Somebody told me that Summer Glau is hapa, but I have no idea whether this is true and I really don't think she reads as Asian to your average viewer, though correct me if I'm wrong.

by **eselle28** Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:24 pm

Werel wrote:Ugh, can we talk whitewashing a second re: Firefly? Why am I the only person I know who's super grossed out by everyone code-switching in Mandarin "for flavor" and all the planets being covered in Chinese signs and everybody playing Chinese goddamn checkers in their downtime... AND YET not once is there a person of Asian descent in the whole show*? Even among the extras? I first watched Firefly a year or two ago, and by the time I was five or six episodes in, I was freeze-framing crowd shots to try and find a single Asian person. Nada. The erasure of real people in order to turn all of East Asian culture into a prop for a white cowboy hero is chillingly thorough. Good job Joss!

*Somebody told me that Summer Glau is hapa, but I have no idea whether this is true and I really don't think she reads as Asian to your average viewer, though correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, that's one of the worst things about a show I otherwise love. Summer Glau is white, as is Sean Maher, who played her brother. I don't necessarily mind the idea of a culture that's so integrated that people might have an Chinese-coded last name but be mostly ethnically white, but if the show is going to do that, I think it also needed to present some characters who appear to be Chinese and have last names that don't necessarily signal that.

by The Wisp Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:29 pm

I am sick and tired of seeing ads for multiple "how men and women are different but still love each other" type movies. No, it's not "sharp", "witty", "revealing". It's the same insulting (to all genders) jokes about how men are from Mars and women from Venus.

by nearly_takuan Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:38 am

Okay, so someone managed to persuade me to give the second episode of The Flash a chance.

This was unwise. I'll grant that the writing was a huge step up and the villain/plot had interesting potential. But....

Sexism:

Bad Science, Cont.:

by reboundstudent Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:35 pm

eselle28 wrote:
Wondering wrote:
The one place I was willing to overlook it was Cloud Atlas because they were reusing all the actors in all the storylines, regardless of race. But I know there were people bothered by the white actors playing Asians in that movie.

I'm one of those people! In addition to erasure of Asian characters, using the same actors was just so goddamn obvious. But that's another one of those works that I'm not sure was meant to be a movie.

Browns Held High had a very good video review of Cloud Atlas in which he discussed the race-bending in the movie. He originally defends it by pointing out the wonky reincarnation theme, and theorizing that they cast actors who fit a particular role perfectly (Doona Bae as Sonmi 451), and then race-bent them as a philosophical-artistic choice a la Angels In America.

... Until he found out Natalie Portman was originally cast to play Sonmi 451. Nope, never mind, totally racist.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/oancitizen/brows-held-high/41755-brows-held-high-cloud-atlas

(Whole review is really worth watching; Part 2 is where he discusses the race-bending. Oh Kyle Kallgren. *Dreamy sigh.*)

by SadisticToaster Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:50 pm

Lemminkainen wrote:
I also hate The Big Bang Theory. Hate it, hate it, hate it. I hate its misogyny, I hate its treatment of autistic people, I hate the fact that the writers have obviously never spent any time hanging around actual smart people, I hate its nerdy characters' self-hatred, and I hate the show's general lack of jokes that are actually funny. So, unlike the Dr. Who case, I think it's wholly justified.

I tried, and tried, and tried to like The Big Bang Theory, but the awesomeness that is Amy aside, found nothing to like. It also failed to feel relatedly nerdy ( unlike something like Spaced, or The IT Crowd )

HermitTheToad wrote:What's the collective opinion about movies that have white actors in place of characters that are traditionally ethnic?

Gah. White people are ethnic too. It's a real wind up for me when people call non-whites 'Ethnic' - everyone is part of some ethnic group or another. It seems to come from the idea that white is the 'normal', and everything else is a deviate.

Rant not aimed at you, HermitTheToad, by the way, I know this has become part of the common vernacular so people tend to say it without meaning any harm.

by Guest Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:09 pm

SadisticToaster wrote:
Gah. White people are ethnic too. It's a real wind up for me when people call non-whites 'Ethnic' - everyone is part of some ethnic group or another. It seems to come from the idea that white is the 'normal', and everything else is a deviate.

I get what you mean. It's just that to a person in a minority, 'white' often is the norm.

Rant not aimed at you, HermitTheToad, by the way, I know this has become part of the common vernacular so people tend to say it without meaning any harm.

Non-white then. It seems more fitting.

by ApocalypseApple Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:48 am

Add me to the list too, because I really can't stand whitewashing. I am white though, so I don't think I can fully talk about the racism aspect of it, but there are several other reasons why it just doesn't work.

For one, whitewashing is just another way of killing any possibility for a variety of people on screen. All men and women have to look a certain way, have a certain standard of beauty and don't really come from different cultures. It's just downright boring. It astounds me that these same people are chosen over and over again because hollywood thinks they're more relatable to the majority, but I rarely find them more relatable in most cases. In trying to 'pander' to the majority, aka white people, they're starting to create a very niche group of actors that few people relate to. It doesn't help that it's mostly the white male audience that is most 'important'.

It's boring. It's a waste of opportunity in a lot of cases. Exodus? Imagine if they actually cast the appropriate races for this film. Not only do you create a lot more opportunity for non-white actors to shine, but it also has a larger chance of becoming a memorable film. As it is now, it's going to be a hollywood blockbuster that will probably make a lot of money, but will disappear from most people's memories within a few months. And that's boring. But it'll make money, so there's no incentive for change.

With Breaking Bad bringing all this talk about how main characters no longer need to be relatable and 'good', they really seem to miss the point when this main character isn't a white male. At that point it's apparently no longer appealing?

It bores me so. I want to see a vast variety in appearances, cultures, backgrounds, sexuality, identity, and so on, just everything.

by kath Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:01 pm

Thanks for that link, Marty! I loved that review! Now I want to watch all his reviews ...

by Lemminkainen Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:07 pm

ApocalypseApple wrote:

It's boring. It's a waste of opportunity in a lot of cases. Exodus? Imagine if they actually cast the appropriate races for this film. Not only do you create a lot more opportunity for non-white actors to shine, but it also has a larger chance of becoming a memorable film. As it is now, it's going to be a hollywood blockbuster that will probably make a lot of money, but will disappear from most people's memories within a few months. And that's boring. But it'll make money, so there's no incentive for change.

This is one of many, many reasons why I strongly suspect that Exodus won't be anywhere near as good as my favorite biblical adaptation ever: The Prince of Egypt. (Which I unabashedly love even though I don't believe in any of the Abrahamic faiths.)

by azazel Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:15 pm

Horns, you really went there?

Your protagonist is drunk, gets taken home by someone, wakes up in their bed, the other person even says something like "Well I knew you wouldn't have sex with me sober", and you make the protagonist apologize for the fact that he was just raped?

Wow. Ballsy move.

by reboundstudent Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:57 pm

kath wrote:Thanks for that link, Marty! I loved that review! Now I want to watch all his reviews ...

They are all fantastic. His review of Spring Break and Room in Rome are particular favorites. He also did a whole Shakespeare month, which included a review of the porn version of "A Midsummer Night's Dream" (A Midsummer Night's Cream.) It's glorious.

by UristMcBunny Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:16 pm

azazel wrote:Horns, you really went there?

Your protagonist is drunk, gets taken home by someone, wakes up in their bed, the other person even says something like "Well I knew you wouldn't have sex with me sober", and you make the protagonist apologize for the fact that he was just raped?

Wow. Ballsy move.

Wow, seriously? That's grotesque.

by azazel Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:51 am

UristMcBunny wrote:
Wow, seriously? That's grotesque.

I think they trying to get some feels for Glenna that no one respects her. They honestly will not have seen what kind of predator this conversation makes her look like. They might even consider themselves progressive because this is a woman who enjoys sex damnit!

GLENNA
I'm worthless
anyways.
Nobody will screw me
without being totally drunk.
Everybody in this town
thinks that I'm trash.

IG
That's not true, Glenna.

GLENNA
You never would've screwed
me if you weren't blind drunk.

IG
- Well...

GLENNA
- I could tell you were thinking
about Merrin
the whole time.

IG
Glenna,
I've got no excuse
for last night.

Do note that she already propositioned him earlier on the evening but he refused. Only after getting blind drunk and getting dragged to her home she manages to finally fuck him. Oh well, enthusiastic consent is apparently hard for Hollywood to grasp.

by **reboot** Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:22 am

That is a thoroughly creepy and awful bit of dialogue. It is not enthusiastic consent Hollywood has trouble with, it is consent period, if that bit of chat is anything to go by.

by UristMcBunny Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:36 am

Yeah, that's not bad enthusiastic consent. That's NO FUCKING CONSENT PERIOD.

by **eselle28** Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:19 am

When did so many romance novel heroines get so mean? I mean, Bella Swan was a limp, whiny dishrag of a person, but it's at least plausible that a 15-year-old with neglectful parents in a new town might be moody and withdrawn, and she tended to ignore her casual female friends more than be cruel to them. The new crop are in their 20s, when hating absolutely everything seems more like a character flaw than a phase. It also seems like a lot of them have gotten a lot more obvious about which point on the love triangle is going to end up alone, and there's a lot more of the making him out to be perfect while also making it clear he's still nowhere near up to the heroine's standards. They've definitely gotten harsher about heroines' relationships with their best friends - now they don't just ignore them, but slut shame them and think horrible things about them with very little presented to justify venom. I mean, I get that a lot of people might have Mean Girl fantasies about being the one who can lord over everyone the way others might have lorded over you, but a whole book about that fantasy results in a nasty, negative narrator who it's really hard to cheer for.

by nearly_takuan Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:58 am

OUaT: the only 'verse where some guy you randomly get a crush on is more likely to love you in return than your parents or siblings.

by reboundstudent Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:11 am

eselle28 wrote:When did so many romance novel heroines get so mean? I mean, Bella Swan was a limp, whiny dishrag of a person, but it's at least plausible that a 15-year-old with neglectful parents in a new town might be moody and withdrawn, and she tended to ignore her casual female friends more than be cruel to them. The new crop are in their 20s, when hating absolutely everything seems more like a character flaw than a phase. It also seems like a lot of them have gotten a lot more obvious about which point on the love triangle is going to end up alone, and there's a lot more of the making him out to be perfect while also making it clear he's still nowhere near up to the heroine's standards. They've definitely gotten harsher about heroines' relationships with their best friends - now they don't just ignore them, but slut shame them and think horrible things about them with very little presented to justify venom. I mean, I get that a lot of people might have Mean Girl fantasies about being the one who can lord over everyone the way others might have lorded over you, but a whole book about that fantasy results in a nasty, negative narrator who it's really hard to cheer for.

Been reading 50 Shades have ya? ;-)

If not, dear Lord, this is actually a trend?

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